Pur Oud

This is an astonishingly great fragrance, but before going any farther, I better address the elephant in the room. The elephant: right up front, the price asked for this product, even considering the limited 2000 bottle production and the 10% oud content, is exceptionally high. True. Acknowledged. At this price point, cost necessarily colors all judgments about this fragrance. The room: beautiful, breathtakingly sublime oud from Assam revealing all of the celebrated facets of oud as the scent warms on your skin--woody, medicinal, camphorous, animalic, fecal and spicy. There is nothing rough or harsh in this fragrance. There is some petrol, barnyard and skank, but it never gets out of hand because this oud is well chosen, beautifully blended and carefully controlled. Underneath the amazing oud is a shimmering, slightly metallic musk that smooths, brightens and extends the duration of the oud facet and that elevates this fragrance to the highest level. As I write this review, I am at a birthday celebration for one of my brothers-in-law and there is exceptionally high quality oud smoking on a Japanese, mica plate burner at the end of the couch on which I am sitting. This unique experience--wearing Pur Oud in a room where actual premium quality oud wood is releasing its deep, complex smoke--reveals the truly amazing and transparent exposition of the smell of oud that this scent presents to the wearer. Verdict considering the elephant in the room: probably worth it for connoisseurs of real oud only. Not for folks who buy luxury goods to show off (there are better choices for lovers of flash, flex & bling--almost no one will recognize this fragrance as you wear it and you are hardly likely to walk around a club carrying the bottle label side out). In a market where scarcity coupled with high demand have driven the price of tiny chips of good oud wood sky high, even the price of this concentrated oud fragrance is understandable, if still high. Like a great, rare, bottle of a a superior vintage wine, Pur Oud is a delightful indulgence for folks with the knowledge and experience to savor and appreciate the oud on display here, especially in the context provided by this knowledge and experience. For anyone else, there are surely better ways to spend your cash. In my case, this bottle was a gift from an overly generous relative and I happen to have a pretty considerable experience of oud to draw on as I savor this scent. Unsurprisingly, then, I absolutely adore Pur Oud. Pur Oud is a triumph for Louis Vuitton; a very, very pricey triumph.

Been wearing this for a good 2 months and I can certainly say that this is my best buy ever since I started wearing fragrance. While I’m not exactly a fan of LV, I’m very thankful for the brand to allow Jacques Cavallier to make such a discerningly bold move. The line got me hooked in with Nuit De Feu in 2020, I took it as a very promising signal towards a step-up from Ombre Nomade or Les Sables Roses, and was very hopeful for the 2021 edition. When I received the news on Pur Oud (which was btw very under the radar), I was totally mind-blown. It was a perfect launch for me from the abstract to the formula, to the preservation of the raw material’s integrity, and to the actual execution of the launch - a very well done job! Now I’m having a very high expectation for 2022. And I hope LVMH will make refill available for this one too :) — Regarding the scent, Pur Oud lives up to its name - raw yet very refined oud: balanced, realistic, minimalistic yet nuanced. The opening is pretty animalistic and provocative, which then dries down very gracefully into agarwood in its most desirable form. I prefer wearing it alone underneath my garments as I enjoy the lowkey intimate sillage. It lasts till the next day.

Back for an update after having this bottle for over 2 years! It's still my favorite, and also my signature. I wear it almost every week and surprisingly, I've still got half a bottle left! I used to find the opening a little skanky when I first bought it but nowadays I don’t get that dirty aspect anymore, perhaps my nose has grown to love it, or because of the maceration... I only use 2 sprays max each time – it's got really great staying power and nice intimate projection. This is legit the only scent that actually brings me peace whenever I get stressed out! Oh and I’ve heard about layering it but honestly I prefer wearing it alone as i really enjoy the simplicity of it! People may hate on it, but I don't really care, as long as they don’t discontinue it (LV has a history of discontinuing frags that don’t sell!!)... I'm just hoping I can still do a refill when this bottle runs out.

I must express my deep disappointment with some of the recent comments, which seem to overlook the very essence of this fragrance. This is a pure oud, and its price reflects the exceptional quality and refinement of the raw material , not a typical designer-style composition. It is intentionally crafted for layering, as clearly stated in the collection’s concept: “The Art of Layering.” I personally own "Pur Santal" and "Pur Ambre"as well, and I’ve been layering them to create some truly breathtaking, gatekeep-worthy fragrance combinations. This line isn’t about instant mass appeal — it’s about artistry, nuance, and olfactory craftsmanship for those who appreciate fine perfumery.

Gleefully price grabbing novelty created for the Middle Eastern market by one of my favorite noses Jacques Cavallier. Ten percent of this scent is pure Assam Oud oil. To this is added two synthetic Ferminich molecules which produce very exaggerated visions of musk and amber. The result is a show stopping woody extravagance that must be worn to be believed. Lasting on skin and clothes for over a day and if sprayed generously enough to fill rooms with its smell. Not for everyone, and at a price and limitation that few can afford. Enjoy!

عود سويتي مب جاف العطر جميل شيوخي كمبودي سويت مع امبر العطر على الثوب والغتره يدخلك عالم عالم ثاني مع كسرة من العود الخشب 11/10 السعر مبالغ فيه استبدله بدهن عود كمبودي سويتي مع عطرك المفضل في الشتاء way overpriced you can buy Cambodia oil sweet oud and put it in arterial pulse points on your skin with your best sweet perfume you will get best scent for ever use it in winter never use it in summer

When I first smelled this fragrance, I didn’t like it at all. Luckily, I took a test strip home. After 12 hours, it transformed into a scent very similar to Soul of Oud by Ramon Monegal — which is amazing, as it’s one of the finest oud fragrances I’ve ever smelled. After 48 hours, it evolved into a musky oud of breathtaking beauty. Sadly, it’s extremely expensive

Pur Oud is strength distilled. A deep, commanding oud wrapped in clean woods and subtle spice, it projects quiet power without trying too hard. It’s smooth, assertive, and built for a man who knows exactly who he is. Long‐lasting, refined, and unmistakably bold this is luxury with an edge.

It’s a beautiful fragrance and I must say worth every dollar. Don’t blind buy. But I absolutely love it. Longevity and projection is beast mode on steroids. Yea you can layer it but I prefer wearing it alone.

shittest fucking ass dupe of my nut and shit mixed together whoever is fucking paying the 3k for this is wasting there money im sorry guys but THIS IS SHIT

Do not give your opinion about oud perfumes and your favorite perfume is Sauvage. Thank you.

this shit is so ass whoever is paying 3k for this is delulu

I stopped bathing and started wearing this stuff instead 😻

I’m so glad it doesn’t smell like poo!!!

💕It's so nice after the dry down💕

Price is undeniably EXAGGERATED. It's smells lovely, Absolutely musky with a bit of pure oud in base. Smelling tens of different oud types , I know many types that smells like a funky nasty barn yard BUT , I classify this one as safe a bit animalic but doesn't smell like sh*t at all . The Musk accord in it dominates alot the scent profile. Nice to try but think 1000 times before you buy

Designer fragrances often name "oud" parfumes that don't use even a tiny % of the real ingredient. With "ur Oud" they used 10% of the actual ingredient. Good fragrance that smells exactly as suggested by the name. Pure oud with a soft musk accord. Overall: 7/10 considering the high price.

For those who finds this poop kinda thing... this is to mix with other scents guys!!! Don’t use this. This will create a sticky base for your less performers.. I combine it mostly with sweet tobacco scents and it’s amazing!

You can smell it by its name , it's pure strong oud. Has some roses note in the dry down. But for sure not worth the price.

I like oud, but my god, this smells like literal poop...like a dirty diaper....i gagged when i smelled it.

Visited the store and sprayed it onto a test strip, and I am glad I did that. Some reviews mentioned a fecal facet in this blend, and I must admit it's true. When I brought the test strip and let my friends sniff it, they didn't like it. In my mind, Pur Oud is a beast; it's bold and ruthless. It's definitely not for blind buys. The opening was too harsh to my liking, and no matter how I tried to focus on the other aspects of the fragrance, the fecal hint was just too much. However, I decided to keep the strip and put it inside my drawer. Two days later, I opened my drawer, took the strip, and gave it a sniff. Gone was the fecal hint, leaving a warm, inviting oud base. I am not sure if I can see myself sporting it, but I enjoy the soft base.

Underwhelming “pure” oud, definitely smells like The Night lite to me a blast of some Indian or Hindu Oud mega strong and mega barnyardy biting poo that quickly gets balanced and subdued to become rather textbook. Extremely simple to the point I feel you can just buy some of the best pure Oud you can buy and dilute it with a couple musks and get the same product for less, I would rather buy The Night for less, Myriad was a much more interesting and “unique” Oud to me for less...

A mediocre, and commercial smelling oud even though it's been labeled "real" by the company. It has not been blended in a clever way resulting in why it's just a barnyard mess. Not a good reference point for this material as the oud wisps away leaving a common and heavy-handed cypriol and isobutyl quinoline backbone that smells of rubber from a factory. Eerily Similar to Cavalier's Falkar but priced higher. The material hasn't been done any justice by the perfumer and smells done before as it is reminiscent of something from the uninspired cheap smelling Kilian"Arabian Nights" Line or the artificial Oud Mood selection from Maison Francis Kurkdjian. Very basic. Very overpriced. Dries down to loud nose burning synthetic musks that are fuzzy. Real oud behaves as a base note and will remain omnipresent in the composition giving a "burnt wood" or "incense" like backbone for the duration of the wearing. No sincerity or purpose to this creation that is effectively late to the party. I haven't been impressed by any of the LVs I've smelt so far. Very boring redundant compositions by a highly capable Jacques Cavalier-Belletrud. After having tried many of his recommendations unfortunately I am finding rbalkris's reviews are hardly reliable and are only to fulfill a snobbish contrarian agenda of hyping up expensive mediocre compositions for the sake that they are expensive, exclusive and possibly a blind-buy (the more expensive the fragrance the better the ratings especially if he's one of the first on the site to do a review. Something also apparent of his reviews with the rather boring and pretentious modern house of Fueguia). Massively biased taste and reviews that are uninformed and never helpful, but obviously with some kind of loyal fan base. Be careful. Time to move on... Edit: I truly appreciate the patience that the LV sales associate I was dealing with had. She deserves a medal for her determination and in making these fragrances sound as appealing as possible. When I mentioned to her that it felt plain and not great after testing it for some time she understood and told me that she didn't prefer it either but insisted it should be layered with offerings like Les Sables Roses, California Dream, Nuit de Feu or any of the other offerings for a more desirable effect. My opinion, but when brands insist on layering their fragrances you know they're full of it.

I’m honestly disappointed. I had overestimated Louis Vuitton, but that’s on me. I expected this oud to be strong, dominant, aggressive, loud, and dirty. That’s my fault because I love heavy hitters. I like when a skanky oud just blows my head off. I like when I open the cap of a perfume and it feels like I just pressed trigger of a shotgun and put it to my head. This isn’t it. This is not a heavy hitter. This is oud that has been overly washed, commercialized, silent, and friendly. Imagine a businessman in a suit trying to sell you something he’s consistent and polite, but there’s nothing raw about him. Pur Oud is accompanied by a somehow sweet musk that gives off a slightly peachy and lychee like scent, just as someone here mentioned. Then there’s the Ambrettolide, which intensifies the musk yet rounds out the oud even more. From both an artistic and commercial perspective, I admire it for how they managed to clean up oud without completely killing it in the process. There are remnants of oud here, but in the softest way possible. Definitely a pass for me. This is a successful light oud unlike Byredo Accord Oud, which was completely castrated. At least Pur Oud retains a ghost of its origins. But for me it's too clean and safe smelling. The price is completely insane.

The most expensive way to smell like s***! If you thought "The Night" by Frederic Malle was cow barn (like the night when little Jesus was born in a manger), think again, because this one is playdough mixed with Bovine Sewage. However, glamorously so! When I talk about perfumes with people, some raise their eyebrows, when I tell them there are fecal notes in expensive and some of the very best perfumes ever made. This however, is pure fecal defecation to a European nose, so go easy on the trigger, 😂😆😂😆😂

I tried this yesterday completely prepared to pay the over inflated price if I loved it. Well all I got was complete pungent shock of Horse manure from it! Disgusting! I read the reviews here and I was determined to give it a chance by wearing it to see if the dry down won me over.. but it was so bad, the spray on the fragrance card was enough! It actually mad me feel sick. There is not a single thing nice about the smell, it’s almost as if the creator either hates his job or is so pompous he really believes we will take the smell of sh!t with a designer label, as if he is being ironic. I also got to smell the other new Oud fragrance Louis Vuitton Fleur du Désert, I was also not impressed it was very blahhh and not worth the purchase. A very wishy washy fragrance stronger than most of their floral scents, but no where near the Oud level of Les Sables Roses. I have 5 different LV fragrances, but neither of these were about to be added to my collection in a hurry.

This was a very unpleasant surprise in the LV boutique. I had virtually no idea what I was about to spray on my wrist, both in terms of the actual scent as well as the price tag, as it was right next to Ombre Nomade and Nouveau Monde which I both love. My significant other, who was with me, had a very unfiltered and spontaneous reaction - "omg that smells like literal sh...", I think you know what, since that seems to be the general consensus in many of the comments below. Especially the opening is very difficult. I wonder who the target is. Someone mentioned it's for layering. It's really hard to imagine. In my opinion, this is anything but wearable in the Western world. A couple hours down the line it becomes slightly more tolerable, but still very challenging to wear. Glad to have tried it though.

Got pranked by the tester for this in the Geneva Louis Vuitton store. The atomizer was faulty/blocked and it splashed pure oud all over my hand. I had to wash that stuff off as I was seeing friends 20mins later, I was well worried and sweating thinking people would look at me funny. Quickly found a nearby toilet and I could still smell that barnyard smell after 5 washes haha Definitely challenging, most likely made for layering. But why bother layering and risk smelling like you've shat yourself and tried to cover it up with perfume when beautiful oud-based fragrances made by a professional exist? Try it for a good laugh at least. If you want to clear out a room, overspray this bastard.

I’m not the biggest fan of oud usually, but I can usually appreciate it from an artistic and fragrance enthusiast perspective. This is potentially the worst fragrance I’ve ever smelled. Everyone else is spot on with this smelling like literal crap. Whoever would want to have feces hitting their nose is crazy. The price point is also asinine. I’ll give it to them on the potency, but do you really want incredible performance out of something where the performer is the worst thing ever? A fool and his money are soon departed, and whatever idiot spends $1,000 to smell like this needs to go to some reeducation camp.

First things first, I made a blind purchase of this. I genuinely fell in love with the LV Ombre Nomad after making a blind purchase! I thus anticipated the same from Pur Oud. But holy hell, I was mistaken! It is quite difficult to pull off this scent. It smells incredibly animalistic, harsh, and dry. Although the dry does get lighter and the beginning is rather unpleasant, the oud is exceptionally pure. You smell like poop," one of my pals remarked when I wore this to a dinner. I felt let down. Wasted money of $1800 :/

Why the hell would you spend a money on this shit, to smell like exactly shit instead of making a fragrance collection? Nobody cares about your thoughts for the perfume, you will be a shitty-smelling person for people if you wear this. This is pure shit, in other words Pur Merde. I would never, NEVER recommend this piece of shit. Secretions Magnifique by Etat Libre d’Orange smells better than this.

Sprayed it on my dorsal and I immediately regret it. This smells like horse's sh** and it's extremely expensive. Smells better after I wash my hand with a soap (yet I can still smell it but way better). Just buy Ombre Nomade (you'll thank me), don't buy this.

This is the most disgusting perfume i have ever smelt. I have all the LV collection. This smell reminded me of being on a farm when i was a kid and that smell when you stand too close to a cow. Its disgusting. Avoid at all costs

I know how bad this smells We went to the store and told my friend "this is the most expensive perfume they have and it's luxurious" and then i sprayed like 10 sprays on his chest as a prank. 7 hours later he's still mad at me 🤣

This shit is motherfucking rancid. There's no other way of putting it, but it genuinely smells like poo. Im serious, you go to the toilet, take. sniff, and that's what this $3000 fragrance smells like. Oh yeah, its $3000

Why does it smell like poo? Bought 5ml for 100€ and this smell like old dirty toilet

I have smelt terrible perfumes, but this takes the trophy. It smells like pee.

I finally tried this and it smells like literal horse shit. “Pur barn”

If you want to smell like horse poop this is your go to scent

This should be called pur merde, French for pure shit

It literally smells like horse shit. No exaggeration.

Pur Oud smells linear, interesting to some but maybe uninteresting to others (that may seem underwhelming or an overstatement to some). But smelling the fragrance at the Louis Vuitton boutique and then speaking to one of the people at the store and also doing some research, I was told that it was more of a layering scent. But to me even if I was super rich a scent at this pricepoint could, at least, use a more interesting choice of oud that warrants the pricepoint, something rarer that has more character. The Oud used in Pur Oud is, nearly definitely, an Oud that has to be consistently smelling since although pur oud is limited it is still sold in mass quantities, for a major label like LV to sell an Oud scent in mass with consistency you can't use wild oud, (you would have to track down the tree which could take forever since the tree has to have certain type of germ growth on it so you actually get agarwood that has some scent to it because if this they probably did use real oud but it probably harvested agarwood, agarwood that is inoculated, forced to produce that mould and then maybe even soaked before the oil is extracted, this results in a very for lack of a better word faecal, well not feacal but one of the chemicals responsible for a "faecal" smell is indol so I'll say indol smell, (indol on its own is strong but the the other germs and nasties found in poo aren't present in Pur Oud, it does smell or nasty but it has that same smell which by itself indole or other chemical like skatole they aren't putride smelling or rotten and can be even be found in things that we eat like green vegetables, but straight up poo wouldn't sell and an "indol-skatole smell is more accurate), some people enjoy this and in perfumery, a lot of the bets smelling raw materials start of smelling faecal but for oud, the faecal stuff is most likely bottom tier. That being said I don't understand how people gag. To me, it didn't make me gag, smile, frown or anything and for a scent at pricepoint to me, it should be a "wow-scent". Back to the scent, I can see the comparison between the others but Pur Oud is very linear it's one note with very expensive fragrance molecules to push it. It's alright but imagine if they had used the best Oud types from a wild tree like Kinam or kyara that would mean a more limited release, but that would have resulted in a legendary scent and with the help of a master perfumer, It would have been the Oud fragrance to beat all Oud fragrances. I still like it and weirdly enough would cop it but for a way lower price, in the future, this is one that people will probably go on the hunt for since it is limited and could be used as a good investment, because of what it is and the brand the price would probably go up. All that being said the scent by itself needed more, and other counterparts like The Night - in a battle would be it - hands down.

Klakas oud... Klakas oud it is, old indian oud. Earthy sweet, balsamic, radiant, and full of character... But! Imagine going to Chinese chief and ask them to cook you authentic French cassoulet! or going to French cooker to cook you Indian curry then to cook you Japanese curry! or maybe an American to cook you Yemini, & Saudi Mendi! i mean how on earth would an Arab (since this is limited Edition to Middle Eastern countries) would go to LV to purchase authentic oud fragrance! Now, i can't deny that this is Klakas oud, which is the most expensive oud in the market because of its rarity & it smells quite pretty with a characteristic quality, but paying $2000+ for a 75ml where you can find it in the same market (region) that they limited this blend in with fraction of its price! i already own an identical blend that cost me $220 & from a well known authentic local brand in GCC! and it is 100ml and i got an extra gifts with it (agar oud)! No offense, but those who buys this, are they really ok! have you guys wondered in GCC before! & for those Europeans who loves this, have a trip to GCC, it will cost you way less than purchasing a bottle of this! And last but not least, kindly with no offense for sure. those who fancy Santal 33, Dior Sauvage, vanilla powder, & candy bonbon cherry kisses... please don't come near this, and if you don't mind, please don't comment about the actions that you would do if you smell this fragrance! cause honestly having "Aventus", "Baccarat Rouge", or any of Parfums de Marly blends as your signatures or even liking them in general while commenting about this blend, it won't make you classy, role model, or someone anyone would look up to! as a matter of fact, you're seen otherwise... Again, no offense, and just saying! But i can understand the frustration & negativity that you guys get into, cause these kind of materials are actually strictly forbidden to be used in designer brands (beside other notes like curcuma, cumin, fenugreek, star anise, etc..) according to their policies cause people in general don't like those notes and those brands cares only for sale, so LV using this isn't appealing since LV is reachable by masses & this by itself caused these unwanted imaginations! In general, this blend is authentic with great quality, but it doesn't worth more than 250$ MAX.

Sometimes calling a fragrance polarising is apt, and sometimes, as in the case of LV Pur Oud, it's a huge understatement. So there are just 3 ingredients in the mix here: Assam oud and two synthetic musks, helvetolide and ambrettolide. Helvetolide is one of the few top-note musks that's highly diffusive in nature and has musky and fruity pear-like nuances. Ambrettolide, on the other hand, is also highly diffusive and has a deeper musk profile that comes across as warm, cottony, and soapy with fruity nuances of peach and litchi. Natural Assam oud constitutes a whopping 10% of this formula. This beast opens up with a nuclear blast of tear-jerking, warm, woody, spicy, and barnyardy oud that hits you like a freight train. Folks who are familiar with oud and have experience with it will thoroughly enjoy this true to life extravaganza of Hindi oud in all its nose-bending glory. Those who aren't comfortable with oud will either fall to their knees in shock or run to take a shower. Having said that, the bombastic quotient of the oud begins to taper down in about an hour, and the fragrance takes a massive U-turn, evolving into this bewitching spicy, deeply woody, fruity, cottony, clean, and musky profile with a touch of sweetness. Longevity on this one is excellent, while projection is close quarters, but it's a steady bubble that motors along for hours. LV claims they have made just 2000 bottles of Pur Oud, but even if there are more, this is another creation that is destined to disappear in the near future. A quirky but brave and magnificent fragrance from the brand that will in all probability attain unicorn status once it's gone.

A couple of facts. Natural oud is incredibly expensive, so it's no surprise this fragrance costs what it does. Another thing people often forget is that many of the world's greatest fragrances include challenging notes to create contrast, and oud is one of the most iconic. I agree, pure oud on its own isn't really a "fragrance" for most people. But as a layering ingredient? This is pure gold. I'd pair it with all kinds of sweet fragrances to create incredible hybrids. Think of it like coffee. Some people love a sweet latte, while others prefer black coffee with no sugar. This fragrance is exactly that. It's not trying to please everyone. Even the black bottle reflects that philosophy. To me, Louis Vuitton released pure oud almost like a premium raw material, and I really respect that.

This is the single most animalic fragrance I’ve ever smelled. When I first sprayed it on my wrist(I didn’t dare spray on my neck), it was instant, just a wall of horse poop. Like waking up in a barn. I showed it to my brother and my cousin (who both are not into fragrances) and immediately it was like someone was holding up a diaper to their noses. They said it smelt like poop. And honestly in the moment I agreed with them. As I’ve had this on my skin for longer now though, I have found it more tolerable, although still animalic. I wouldn’t say that it has exactly changed throughout the course of wearing it, but rather I’ve just gotten used to the smell and understand what’s going on now. I always reccomend sampling, but for this it’s a must. Even for Oud lovers.

Well, as is expected from something called Pur Oud, it opens up very fecal. You get the typical oud scent. For the first 30-45 minutes all you get is funky cheese/ barnyard. I will say though that the scent trail it leaves doesn’t smell bad at all and is enjoyable for others. Once that period passes, that fecal smell tones down and you’re left with a nice ‘creamy’ woody scent. I don’t really know how exactly to describe this. The fecal scent never completely goes away but if you like oud you know how to appreciate the smell and if you don’t you’ll hate it. Regardless, the scent smells very nice in the air.

After reading the reviews I was curious to try this one. I have smelled pure oud oil and some fragrances with real oud. LV Pure Oud is definitely on the dirtier side, it smells like earth, cow manure (not in unpleasant way), woody, animalic & leathery. It reminds me of opening pack of fresh compost, manure and some orchid barks and mix them all together. It's a great olfactory experience, although I'm more inclined to cleaner oud, like CO2 distilled Thai oud. I tried pur oud as it's on my skin and also layered with le sables roses. It creates beautiful ambery woody scent when layered together.

This is by far the most challenging fragrance I've ever smelled. Pur oud is true to the name, its like you're really smelling oud. Sounds good but a cologne of only pure oud is quite off-putting. The chances of it smelling pleasant to your nose are rare, and even on the off chance it does, surely everyone in your vicinity will disagree. It is such a strong oud note it almost smells like manure... and for $1,800... maybe you should spend your hard earned money elsewhere.

As the name implies it smells like pure oud. the fecal type oud that isn't palatable to western sensibilities. On the skin it is brutal and intense. In the air it works well in two conditions, extreme dry heat and cold bitter winters. It takes on a new role and is sharp but has an effervescent feeling with a touch of sweetness. Definitely not for me or probably most people but those who like oud should enjoy this.